How Male Wellness, Personal Connections, and Testicular Cancer Align

Managing testicular cancer demands resilience that men often don't realize they possess. Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D., an associate professor at the University of Central Florida, adds another factor to resilience: connectedness.

He shares some insights from his investigatory project on connectedness or disconnection, which could be defined, he says, as "no one really knows me."
This feeling of social isolation becomes even more palpable for young men navigating testicular cancer. Dr. Rovito talks about the challenges young people face, often without the realization they are disconnected from people and social interactions.

A familiar voice on the Don't Give Up on Testicular Cancer podcast, Dr. Rovito, has shared his research outcomes and interests before with our listeners. He specializes in testicular cancer self-examination and testicular cancer in general, male health, behavioral change, and informative research that includes theory, instrument development, and intervention design. He is also a Certified Health Education Specialist.

Learn more about the Male Wellness Collective, a 501(c)(3) led by 
Kathy Rovito, Ph.D.

Enjoy this episode of  Don't Give Up on Testicular Cancer from the Max Mallory Foundation. 

Transcript

Transcript - Making Connections for Male Wellness

Podcast interview with
Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Health Sciences, University of Central Florida 

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Don't Give Up on Testicular Cancer, a podcast where testicular cancer survivors, caregivers, and others who have navigated the cancer journey share their stories. The podcast comes to you from the Max Mallory Foundation, a nonprofit family foundation focused on educating about testicular cancer in honor and in memory of Max Mallory, who died in 2016 at the young age of 22 from testicular cancer.

[00:00:34] Had he survived? Max wanted to help young adults with cancer. This podcast helps meet that goal. Here now is your host, Joyce Lofstrom, Max's mom and a young adult cancer survivor.

[00:00:57] Joyce Lofstrom: [00:01:00] Hi, this is Joyce, and with me today is Michael J. Rovito, who is an associate professor in the Department of Health Sciences at the University of Central Florida. He's been with us before and holds a Ph.D. in public health and an M A. in urban studies from Temple University. He also has a B.A. in geography from Millersville University.

[00:01:23] Joyce Lofstrom: He is a Certified Health Education Specialist, which is important to us as we continue our conversation. He also specializes in testicular cancer self-examination and testicular cancer in general, male health, behavioral change, and informative research that includes theory, instrument development, and intervention design.

[00:01:46] Joyce Lofstrom: He's also the founder and the chairman of the Male Wellness Cooperative, which we'll also talk about. So, Michael, I'm so glad you could join me today. 

[00:01:55] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Oh, it's always great to see you. I appreciate the platform. So thank you very much. I [00:02:00] appreciate taking time out. 

[00:02:01] Joyce Lofstrom: Glad to do it. So I thought we'd start, since we're in November, to talk a little bit about Movember, an annual program initiative that happens worldwide.

[00:02:12] Joyce Lofstrom: And what are you doing and where you are, Central Florida, anything going on with Movember and your work? 

[00:02:20] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Oh, yeah. It's nice that November has recognized the month of November as a platform for raising men's health issues. We appreciate that. We've been getting some outreach efforts going on, and through my nonprofit, we have programming mostly focused on social connectedness. However, we're doing a small outreach locally and regionally with our male participants and loved ones; it's not just men.

[00:02:49] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: We're doing that kind of programming, we're also kind of doing some advocacy, working with partners to spread the word, and there's just general advocacy of, you know, social media and, just other ways to kind of support our [00:03:00] community, but yeah, I mean, it's a great platform because it was never, you know, 20 years ago, it wasn't a thing, 10 years ago, it was a thing, but it wasn't as big, but now, like what you said, it's global, so it's a very, very big thing.

[00:03:12] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Great. It's an awesome opportunity to get the word out there, but we're trying to balance work and life and children and multiple children. 

[00:03:21] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: and 

[00:03:21] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: many other things. But we're making it work. Hopefully, I think so. I think we're making it work. 

[00:03:25] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Oh, I tell myself that we're 

[00:03:27] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: working. 

[00:03:28] Joyce Lofstrom: Well, I always like to talk to you about your research and what you've been working on and studying.

[00:03:33] Joyce Lofstrom: So I know one of the topics is social connections with men or about men. So you want to talk about that? 

[00:03:42] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Sure, I'm doing an investigatory project on connectedness or disconnection, put it that way, and that could be defined as air quote, no one knows me, socially isolated, or socially isolated.

[00:03:59] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: There's [00:04:00] this overwhelming statistic, and I can't quote it. I should be able to quote from memory, but it's. It sounds hyperbolic, but almost 70 percent of young adult men, 70, like 7 0, say they can't name one person who knows them well. 

[00:04:17] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Oh my. 

[00:04:18] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And I'm 

[00:04:18] Speaker 4: like, yeah. And when I first heard that statistic, and my wife, Kathy, she's an expert in this more than me, when she told me that I got it, I was like, that's sad.

[00:04:33] Speaker 4: And we're leaving internationally, we're headed to Germany; I'm looking at the calendar here in a couple of weeks to present on some of this data. There's an international conference on men and masculinity. And I'm presenting on this stuff, and the tie-in is, so I see disconnection as it's now being talked about. This is not my idea; this is a thing floating out there.

[00:04:57] Speaker 4: That disconnection, isolation. [00:05:00] is one of those determinants of health. It's equatable to smoking in terms of how bad it is for our health. Vivek Murthy, the U. S. Surgeon General, and I were at a conference last year at Harvard to hear him talk about it because he has this extensive report on disconnection and its dangers. Equates being socially isolated or disconnected equatable to smoking 15 cigarettes per day. That's more than a half. That's almost a full pack of cigarettes per day; just put it that way. Because this generation doesn't smoke, so, like, a pack is 20 cigarettes, you know.

[00:05:34] Speaker 4: So 15 cigarettes a day, that's a lot. And so, being at the conference and hearing my wife's work inspired me to do it like with men or research it with men. So we're doing a project now on it. We're currently conducting some qualitative interviews and focus groups on it. And some of the information I'm getting is striking.

[00:05:52] Speaker 4: Like many young adult men, they feel isolated. They feel disconnected. They and [00:06:00] there are reasons why, But I'm trying to get to the point for why they feel disconnected and then what can I do to get connected, and people may think, well, go out and make a friend. It's not that easy, particularly now and particularly after COVID.

[00:06:14] Speaker 4: It's not that easy. It's not like what it used to be; it’s more like you ride your bike, meet this boy, and play baseball. It's not like it's like not like that anymore. It's just a different environment. Like, yeah. And we have to get out of that mindset, like what it was 40 years ago when I was a kid, that's 40 years ago, like that is what it used to be, that's not what it is now, you know, and it's just a different environment.

[00:06:41] Speaker 4: And these young boys and these men are just growing up or have grown up in an environment where they weren't being fostered like, hey, I see you. Hey, I love you. Let's talk. Let me nurture you and guide you. Let me show you how to navigate this world. They never really [00:07:00] offered that if they did or offered, it was like this piecemeal approach.

[00:07:05] Speaker 4: It wasn't a very compassionate approach. I hate to use the word stoic because stoicism is a great term. It's the misuse of the word stoic, but people say stoic as if it's a negative thing. Stoicism is a very positive thing. So stoicism is a good thing, but the way people use it is emotionless.

[00:07:24] Speaker 4: And that's how we were approached with this connectedness thing when we were kids, which is like this emotionless connection. A young boy needs emotion, like he needs to express his emotion, and he's not just angry; he's angry, sad, and upset. He's happy, he has a range of emotions, but we funnel boys into, you're a tough, angry boy, you're supposed to be the protector of the house, and anyway, I'm getting on a tangent with this. Still, we're looking at that, seeing why men connect, why they don't connect, what are some issues with that, and we're finding some issues with Sad story, [00:08:00] to be honest with you.

[00:08:00] Speaker 4: It's just sad, sad in the sense that I relate to it. I'm like, my God, it's still going on. And it's sad where, like, you could see from some of the stories that they'll have some of the stories that they'll like when they're 40 and 50 and 60 that I have now because of the way that we were raised, and I'm like, my God. We have to stop this. Somehow, we have to normalize compassion; we have to normalize emotional connection, and we have to normalize this among young boys and men.

[00:08:29] Speaker 4: And we're looking at that now we're trying to develop ways to inform programs to foster. Can meaningful connection between men and boys. So 

[00:08:38] Joyce Lofstrom: so now, would you say when you say you know young adults? Is that like 15 to 35, or what's that? Okay, just yeah, like 

[00:08:45] Speaker 4: people define adolescence as 14 to 26.

[00:08:48] Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, yeah, 10 different people. You'll get 27 different responses, right? 

[00:08:52] Speaker 5: Right. I mean 

[00:08:53] Speaker 4: generally, I'm looking at late teens to probably early or early mid-late [00:09:00] 30s. But I'm not okay. I'm not opposed to You interviewing any guy. It's just that's, you know, I'm at a university, so it's hard.

[00:09:08] Speaker 4: It's not hard, but it's harder to go outside the university realm to find these older men. But I would factor, or gather, that it's just as, you know, prevalence among those men is now just a little bit different, but I'm primarily looking at late teens to mid-thirties around there.

[00:09:27] Joyce Lofstrom: I think what you say is interesting. And I think about my perspective as a woman, but I mean, I have girlfriends there in Kansas City, but they're from kindergarten to first grade. High school and I have some from college, but we've been friends for 50-plus years. I always attribute that to going to a small Catholic grade school in high school, but who knows? I think a lot of people stay, have those kinds of friends, but to your point, people move now, you're not, it's all the things that [00:10:00] were, are so different in life that not everybody is just in the same neighborhood forever, I don't know if that's part of what you're finding.

[00:10:08] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I don't even know, like, I know my neighbors. I live in a house now, but there's one set of neighbors. I couldn't even tell you their names, and that's bad. Like, but when you live in an apartment complex, there's no, nobody that, you know, that's again, what you were saying to when I was a kid, you knew everybody, you know, everyone, not just people on your block in your area, you knew everyone's family and where they live.

[00:10:29] And you knew if they were Catholic or Protestant or whatever it was. And, like, you knew what minor league baseball team they played on, and their brother, and he knew everything. It was so. Invasive, but not like a negative invasive term, like you need everyone's business.

[00:10:45] There are good and bad ways, but you knew everything, and now it's just like we don't know or are more connected than ever, apparently through social media. 

[00:10:53] Joyce Lofstrom: So can you from your research? If you're going to present, you may not want to share a lot of data, but you can just [00:11:00] trends or kind of a consistent approach or not approach but the response you found.

[00:11:07] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Well, one's a no-brainer. COVID threw it through a loop. I mean, that just made things extra worse. It's like we are, we fast-forward life 15 years in a matter of a year and a half, it's like the zoom stuff, you know, that wasn't even a thing. Teaching-wise, that wasn't even a thing. Like. Every meeting wasn't for, now it's all Teams or Zoom.

[00:11:28] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And if it wasn't for COVID, that probably would have taken us another five, six, seven years to catch on because I know pre-COVID, if you had a Zoom meeting, that was like a weird novel thing. You're like, how do I work this? Now, everyone's a Zoom wizard. But COVID threw a loop for everything.

[00:11:46] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: There just needed to be opportunities for people to leave Connect, even if they wanted to. People say, well, there's online stuff, but that's, you know, That's fine. But for every one good connection you find online, there are always five weird ones. 

[00:11:58] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And so, it's like the [00:12:00] negative almost outweighed the positive with that, but I'm still trying to figure that out.

[00:12:04]: But COVID was a problem. That wasn't surprising. The other thing is I had an interview this morning, and this young man said to me, he's a very well-spoken man, very smart, going to med school. And he told me, I was like, what should he do? Like, like, what do you think? And he gave me, we should have this and have that and have this, we should have these events.

I was like, How do I reach out to these people? How do you think people, young men, would they? How should we advertise to them? And then, because one issue we have with our programming with the nonprofit is like we have, it sounds weird because it's my program, it's my wife's program, and It’s the stuff that I've learned, and we developed a really good program, and guys that go through it, they, they love [00:13:00] it.

[00:13:00] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And the issue we had was with recruitment. It was getting guys there, and if they came once, they loved it, but it was just such a haul to get guys there. My point is this: if you're not aware of the issue, if you're not aware of how it's affecting you, it doesn't matter. They're not going to come. If you think you're not thirsty, although I know you need water, but you're like, I'm not there. I'm like, here, there's water. I don't. I'm not going to take a drink. You're like, I know you need water. Like, here you go. I'm not going to take a drink.

[00:13:37] That's what it was like with the programming, and it's a problem, but they're not even aware of how isolated they are and possibly are. They're not aware of disconnection creeping in. Besides that, they're not even aware of the issue or how bad it is. [00:14:00] Being isolated affects one's health, like we call the pre-contemplation stage.

[00:14:04] If you want to get all nerdy academic on you, the pre-contemplation stage, like you don't even know what's an issue. Like we're stopping smoking, like pre-contemplation. You're not even really thinking about it. Contemplation will be like, you know what? Maybe I should smoke someday, or I'll stop smoking someday, maybe whatever.

[00:14:22] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And then you forget about it. And then it goes up and up and up like action and maintenance and stuff. But the pre-contemplation stages. You know, I haven't been aware it's an issue. And so if you don't think it's an issue, me telling you like, Hey, I have a program on this issue, you're going to be like, okay, not for me, but like, it's the idea that these guys are walking around, they're pretty much disconnected.

[00:14:42] They're pretty much socially isolated. They're having the effects of that, but they're unaware of the issue or how it affects them. Therefore, they don't take part in your programming. And so. We have this snake eating like its own tail. So, that's some of the stuff that was [00:15:00] pre-contemplation. 

A lot of these guys are stuck there, and we need some big advertisements with very limited resources. I mean, who's going to put advertising money behind this stuff? It's hard enough to get men's health stuff on this. But we need a big outreach, some awareness campaign on this. And there's some traction with it for guys, mothers, fathers, or their loved ones to be like, oh, hey, That sounds like my kid.

[00:15:29] Michael J. Rovito: I should encourage him, but we need that. A lot of people are stuck in this pre-contemplation phase. That's a major problem because you could have this great programming, but no one's going to show up. 

[00:15:40] Joyce Lofstrom: Well, we talked about what you must be as a man or with the whole idea last time.

[00:15:49] Joyce Lofstrom: That whole persona is one way. And that, that needs to change. That it's okay to have emotion and do those kinds of things. So I know, you know. [00:16:00] 

[00:16:01] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Well, yeah, I mean, masculinity is driving this. And so is gender roles. Things are changing, though. It sounds odd to say, but you know, the hip hop artist Fat Joe, he's a very big advocate.

[00:16:13] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Like, social advocate. Yeah. Social advocacy skills are through the roof. He talked about hip-hop culture and how things used to be when he broke out in the late nineties and early 2000s. It used to be that every single hip-hop or rap artist had to prove, and all artists back then had to present this tough front.

[00:16:35] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Speaker 4: But now, and this is his words, I'm paraphrasing, like now it's a different world now you can be yourself and show other sides without that, you know, mentality. And that, I'm seeing that in guys, they're like, yeah, I hear my dad being like this, I hear my dad being like that. And those, the crux of this, I'm not going to pathologize [00:17:00] traditional masculinity; I think there are some good traits.

[00:17:02] I do think there are some crappy traits of that too, but the crust of this traditional form of masculinity, masculinity that could be a bit constraining for many men, that's still there, but I think there is some daylight for, for men and boys. To express other masculinities that I know are down deep.

[00:17:24] I mean, we all have a plurality of masculinities inside of us, and it's just like we weren't allowed to germinate that without fear of social kind of like rejection or, It's not a judgment or physical, 

[00:17:38] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: you know, 

[00:17:38] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: reaction. So now it's, things are slowly changing. It's nice to hear, but I wish it could change faster.

[00:17:46] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: But, you know, it is a gift to hear the lips of the men themselves that they do feel comfortable kind of bucking the trend of what it used to be. 

[00:17:54] Joyce Lofstrom: So you'll present in a couple of weeks in Germany at this conference. And then does the research keep [00:18:00] going after that? Or what's your next step on what you're doing? 

[00:18:05] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: There's a man, Richard Reeves, who was with the Brookings Institution. I used to read his stuff; he has some books out now on Boys and Men. It's a big one; Dream Hoarders was the other one. Anyway, he's on Obama's reading list for the summer, something like that. Anyway, I was at that Harvard conference last year, and we were at the soiree it was at the Harvard I know it sounds so elitist, like I'm not like that at all; I'm more of a meat and potatoes kind of dude, but at the conference though, they had this like little soiree at the art museum there, and I see the journalist. 

[00:18:43] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: E. J. Dion walking around, I read his stuff for years, I loved him. And I know he's a Brooklyn Institute dude as well, and he sat there, and I said, I was like, Hey, I'm a big fan. And we started talking. He's a wonderful man. 

[00:18:56] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And there's a point here. I promise you 

[00:18:58] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I sat next to him.

[00:18:59] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I go, Hey, [00:19:00] great stuff. You know, this connection, this, that, and the other. I told him about the men's outfits. Oh, you should talk to Richard Reeves. He's a colleague of mine at Brooklyn. I'm like, yeah, I heard of this guy. So I reached out to Richard Reeves and talked to him a bit; now he's everywhere; if you look on social media, he's everywhere. I think he was on CNN the other day, talking to Fareed Zakaria or something like that.

[00:19:21] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D. He has the Higher Education Male Achievement Collaborative or HEMAC Higher Education Male Achievement Collaborative. I told Richard about my work in disconnection and that we're seeing issues in higher education among men. Men are just underperforming, wildly underperforming women in colleges.

[00:19:46] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Like it's, it's alarming. Universities are taking note of this. This TEAM Act is a collaboration between universities we got involved with and UCF. It's under Reeves [00:20:00] organization called the American Institute for Boys and Men. So AIBM, all these acronyms, I know it's like alphabets too, American Institute for Boys and Men, AIBM, they're partnering with the University of Tennessee, Knoxville on the HEMAC collaborative, and they're taking, or they're getting some universities to get involved and started addressing the underachievement of men in college.

[00:20:23] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And so back to your question, I'm hoping. I told Richard this, and we talked a little bit about it. That's why we got involved in some of this stuff. I want to use this connection issue as a reason why men are underperforming in college: because they get here, and they feel aimless, they think directionless rudderless, and they don't have any guidance at all.

[00:20:48] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: There are services out there. But it's not like guys don't have to navigate, and they're disconnected in college. There are these sub-disconnections, which [00:21:00] have even greater issues, like a greater impact upon their lives in very negative ways. Like they're not graduating on time, their GPAs are lower, and they're dropping out at higher rates.

[00:21:10] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And the disconnection transfers over to whatever realm they're in. If they're in the workforce, they’re disconnected. If they're in education, they're disconnected. Like these trends, these habits and behaviors are transferred to following a different matrix. So it doesn't matter, but it's affecting them in college here, and rates are going down, like enrollment rates.

[00:21:28] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: So it's probably for sure. That's where I see my work in one area helping with that higher education issue. 

[00:21:38] Joyce Lofstrom: Yeah, and that was the other topic I, you know, I know we wanted to discuss and, and have you found any, well, you just said the correlation between Disconnect and how they perform in school, but any other, I don't know, just connections with that.

[00:21:53] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Well, yeah, I mean, You know, just looking at I'm not getting political, but [00:22:00] if you look at the past election, it was interesting. Richard Reeves presented some of his data as one of his social media outlets. And I'm not advocating for any candidate at all. I'm not doing that. But I just want to showcase how it switched, like the young adult male.

[00:22:15] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: The numbers are probably not pinpointed. There's something like in 2020, there was a maybe plus three percent voting for Biden. This election was likely 13 percent favoring Trump. And so you have this 14% or 15% point switch in just four years among young men.

[00:22:42] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I'm like that. That's an enormous switch. It was like plus three Biden to plus 11 Trump 14-point swing. That's gargantuan. 

[00:22:55] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And now all these analyses are coming back from who voted for what and why and all this [00:23:00] kind of stuff, all these theories, but, you know, and again, my wife, she's way more talented than me with this area.

[00:23:07] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: He's like, it's the podcast. I'm like, what? It's like the podcast. You saw Trump going on Rogan, Andrew Schultz, the Von. There are other ones he was on, too. Who listens to podcasts the most? Young men, like a lot, there's a statistic out there that a lot of men consume podcasts, particularly young men.

[00:23:30] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And I think that's good or bad, bad or worse, whatever, but there was a connection between young men and the Trump campaign. They made that connection in whatever way you would imagine; I don't know. However, you think there was a connection made. If you reach out to them on the platforms where they're at and they consume this stuff, it will link up now. Again, there's another, whoever disposition is on it.

[00:23:59] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: It's just a fact [00:24:00] that a connection was made. And so the other finding is, if you find them where they're at and online, they're like with the earbuds and listen to podcasts or on their phone like this. 

[00:24:11] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. They're consuming it here. They're not consuming it like on billboards.

[00:24:15] It's here. It's in the algorithm. If you target them there, that's where you get from pre-contemplation to contemplating me. This may be an issue. But the Trump campaign, again, is not a qualifying thing; it masterfully targeted young men, and they got them because they were consuming it, or they put the message where the men were consuming it. You didn't see that in any masterful way from anybody else.

[00:24:45] And so we're all like, that's part of why there was an idea of connection. That could be good use in any way, but they made it a forceful or thoughtful way of connecting with somebody. So this goes back to [00:25:00] the young man going to med school.

[00:25:01] It's like, if you make men aware of something if you make anybody aware of something, they start thinking about it. We can learn a lot of lessons from this campaign. We need to start thinking differently and out of this box of traditional ways. And we talked about it before, I think, with the way that we outreach to men with testicular cancer, kind of like.

[00:25:24] Eye rolling sometimes. They do it by speaking to the lowest common denominator. Anything with testicular cancer is usually funny, not tongue-in-cheek. We talked about the humor. It’s always a ball joke, and I get it. I get it. I do get it. But at a certain point, you're in this all it. 

[00:25:43] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D. Is this all it is?  It’'s just getting tired. It's a tired joke. We got to start thinking of other ways of inventing ways to get testicular cancer awareness out there besides the tired old balls joke, and it's the same thing with [00:26:00] with information consumption among young men.

[00:26:02] There's got to be other ways. Trump’s campaign has got to get to anybody first. It was to the podcast. They figured out that they crafted the Vinci code for four years. It's like a Podcast: get them, get them on there. And that's what. One of the other takeaways is they're looking for different ways to connect with information, and we have to go where they're at.

[00:26:22] They're on podcast. They're on stuff like this, like what you're hosting, and listening to podcasts like this. 

[00:26:28] Joyce Lofstrom: Yeah, that's true. And whatever you think about different types of content, Joe Rogan is a very popular one with a big audience, and they did go to where a certain population is, and that's a big lesson. I think you're right, 

[00:26:42] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: When I heard that from Kathy, I thought, Oh, I didn't even think about that. And, like, we're in this field. 

[00:26:49] Joyce Lofstrom: Well, I know my son, he's 38, listens to a lot of podcasts. And once in a while, we'll talk about it, you know, which ones he's listening to. And sometimes, I listen, but if that is a [00:27:00] very, you're right.

[00:27:01] Joyce Lofstrom: It's a common content or communications tool for them. So you can do it in your research. How does cancer affect performance in school? I mean, I already know that. Of course, it will affect what you can do in school. But have you found that in some of your conversations or research?

[00:27:23] Joyce Lofstrom: you're a young man, you get diagnosed with cancer, testicular cancer, and then you get well, and then what? 

[00:27:30] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Well, from my experience with young men in cancer and in university, in a college classroom, I had, I'm sorry, I had a few men in my class. They were Texas cancer survivors.

[00:27:44] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And I talked to them, and they were very resilient people. They seem very resilient. It's like, if you stay in, there's resiliency. But, I'm not saying if you drop out of college because you have [00:28:00] cancer, you're not resilient; because you're going through cancer and you're surviving cancer, you're battling cancer, you're a resilient person just naturally.

[00:28:06] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: But like the few men that had to, that were going through, and they talked about their chemotherapy, And the discovery and just the growth they went through from pre-contemplation. Let's bring back that nerdy term again. They didn't know what was going on to discover, like WTF. Like, what is this to chemo? Losing hair too, you know, you are getting testicles to thriving.

[00:28:35] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I mean, it's an interesting journey. I know a lot of men that I talked to that, that are cancer survivors in college, it was there's that underlying low grade, always there, you know, you have a pain in your back or something like that. It's like, you know, always, it's like this underlying anxiety of like six months again, six months again, six months again.

[00:28:59] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: It's [00:29:00] like you live your life six months at a time. I mean, you know this more than anybody. It's like you live your life checking the month and the days off until you get your scan. I mean, my wife got thyroid cancer a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if I shared this at all, but the thyroid cancer, yeah, and we just had a recent scan, and it was like a little bit like, it came back fine, but it was like, You know, she's like mid-thirties and like, if she goes for endocrinologist appointments and she, she still goes to these scans, and you know, it's, it's, it's way more positive than negative right now, but it's still like, whenever she goes, like, I get like, I've got to breathe it through because you're like, what if, 

[00:29:49] Joyce Lofstrom: What next?

[00:29:51] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And like, I didn't even go through it, you know, in terms of physically going through it. And, like, I see her going through it and like the after effects. And so my [00:30:00] point is, people that are going through cancer and are sitting in that classroom, man, or they went through it. And you see, or you could, when they share with you, you can see the quality of life.

[00:30:11] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Like here, it's just like, it's always. It's always there. I had a student that I mentored. I think she had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I forget the cancer, but she's doing wonderfully well. She moved to different cities. She's about this far in graduate school but says, “ Hey, I can't do X, Y, and Z.

[00:30:29] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: They found this on the scan, and she was a wreck for weeks. And she texted me the other day. She's like, it was a benign exclamation. I'm like, man, that's a poor girl. She's. 28, you know, and it's like a lifelong battle. And so you see that in the students that are sitting in your classroom or whoever that are battling cancer, anybody battling this.

[00:30:53] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I mean, you see that constant battle, you hear the constant battle, and it hardens you. And [00:31:00] again, Joyce, you could outrun me in this. And you're lapping me in this kind of expertise category, but you could see the hardening, the weathering, or the resilience factors or something.

[00:31:11] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: It's just like it's always there. It's like always in the back of your mind or the forefront of your mind, but it's always there tinkering around and like in the tool shed, and it affects these people because you can see like them like a little bit, like, you know, they have school, and they have this, and they have, and they have cancer.

[00:31:27] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Yeah. So it's like, you have to learn to Be a multidisciplinarian to handle the crop. 

[00:31:35] Joyce Lofstrom: Yeah. I had thyroid cancer when I was 25. And It was attributed to radiation in high school for zits, you know, and they didn't cover up my neck when they did the light treatments, is what they called it.

[00:31:48] Joyce Lofstrom: But I'll do a quick story and then go on. But for 20 years, I was okay. I didn't do any follow-up. And then I did in 99, and there was a lot. They [00:32:00] took out the lump. I did radioactive iodine, and then in 2009, there was more, so that time, they did a neck dissection and took out all the lymph nodes on the right side of my neck. I did radioactive iodine again, and so far, you know, that's it, you know, I'm done, but it's just, it does stay with you, and every time you have a scan or, oh God, there's a lump.

[00:32:27] Joyce Lofstrom: It's like, well, shit, I already lumped. I don't want another one, you know. And it's like, but I've been lucky; it's very treatable. 

[00:32:35] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I know, but even like that, you look at the life you built your children, and the home. 

[00:32:41] Joyce Lofstrom: Yes. 

[00:32:42] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: It’s like, you know. You know, like you look all this up, you're like, my God, this could be gone like that.

[00:32:46] Joyce Lofstrom: It could all be gone. Very true. Yes. 

[00:32:49] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Just like a weird thing. Like I was diagnosed with three-vessel coronary artery disease. I'm like, what? 

[00:32:54] Joyce Lofstrom: Oh my. 

[00:32:56] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Yeah. Like, this is the widow maker. I'm like, widow maker? I'm like, what the hell is the [00:33:00] hell? Yeah. We’re training for this event and working out, and I got fatigued and like you more than you. And I went to my primary care.

[00:33:12] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: He's like, Oh, you should get checked for cardio, maybe some neuro, too. I'm like, okay, why don't you throw in tomato farmer?

[00:33:20] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Let me check. And anyway, cardio neural, there is pulmonary foam, they're like, you're okay, man, your lungs are great. I'm like, cool. Neuro, they're like, yeah, man, you're good.

[00:33:32] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Cardio like ooh, three vessels CAD. I'm like, what? They're like, yeah. Glad he came in now. I'm like, okay. So, like, usually with guys that die of a heart attack when they're 55, they have this; they just never got checked. And so they, I'm at 30 percent block on whatever is happening here. But they're like, yeah, if you would have waited, like I'm on a stat now, but like they're, you know, it's like a bit of P, but like, [00:34:00] it's, they're like, you have to do it now because if you'd wait 10 years, you'd be that statistic.

[00:34:04] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I'm like, I, you know, it's like, oh my God. Yeah. Like, I look at Kathy with their, you know, with her cancer and me with my heart disease. I'm like, we have two little small kids, and I'm like, Hmm, you know, so, but even for me and her, it's like, there's like an underlying current of anxiety, and it's like, it's always there.

[00:34:23] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Like I'm working in the morning, and every morning I'm like, what if I just, like, I terrible joke. I said to Kathy, "What if you walk out and find me in the living room or down the gym? She's like, "That's a real fear." I'm like, I joke about it. But that's my way of coping with that.

[00:34:44] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I think about that. I'm like, Christ, I'm out here. What if that's how it happens for many of these people? 

[00:34:53] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I have that, not to the extent of getting chemotherapy treatment, three rounds of it. But, like, I have that [00:35:00] underlying issue. 

[00:35:01] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: And these students, underlying anxiety, like, oh my god, what if, like, what's next, like, what if this comes back, or, but you see that a lot with students that have cancer or battling any disease, like, you see that in them. They're, like, balancing not just studying, or they're also balancing life, and I, I see that they don't relate to a lot of their colleagues sitting next to them because They feel alienated, like, I have this, and I'm dealing with this, and you're complaining about that.

[00:35:27] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: That is not an issue. That kind of disposition is going on, and I feel for them. 

[00:35:32] Joyce Lofstrom: I have two questions about your work. You were talking about interviewing young men. Are you still looking for people? Do you want to promote that here? 

[00:35:45] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D. I am looking for young men or guys over 18 to talk to me about connection and engagement.

[00:35:56] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: It's geared around, like, support systems, and if they exist, if [00:36:00] they don't exist, it's just a couple of questions, but it'd be really helpful to talk to any guy out there. We're looking for your perspective, like your information on if you're connected or if you're not, or what makes you want to be connected or what makes you not want to be connected.

[00:36:16] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: How do you find connections? Or how do you engage? These are questions that a lot of guys are like, whatever with, I'm like, don't make that face. This is a really big issue. Think about how many close friends you have, right? Maybe none, maybe one. Oh, and that's fine. But do you think anyone knows you?

[00:36:35] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Well, I do want to be known. Well, do you want to have that? We call, but only a few guys have this side-to-side connection. We're like, you know, you're walking side by side. And it's like, okay, cool. What's up? But we need more face-to-face connections, like those deep, meaningful connections. And guys don't have that guys are more side to side.

[00:36:56] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Women are more face-to-face, and we need more of this. Guys need more of that [00:37:00]. They need a deep emotional connection; we don't for various reasons. Guys are like I'm not doing that. Like, well, you should because you need to do that. 

[00:37:09] Joyce Lofstrom: Yeah, 

[00:37:09] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: but we have been socially conforming, you know, conforming to not wanting to do that. We think it's normal for guys not to have that, and it's abnormal, it's abnormal.

[00:37:18] Joyce Lofstrom: How do they get in touch with you? 

[00:37:20] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: So you can reach out to me; the best way is my contact information at UCF. It's

michael.rovito@ucf.edu. R-O-V-I-T-O. michael.rovito@ucf.edu  

If you get a hold of me or email me, I'll get a hold of you right back. Okay. It won't be a staff member.

[00:37:35] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: It'll be me directly. 

[00:37:37] Joyce Lofstrom: And then my other, well, I have one other question after this, but, so you mentioned the program you have going, which is, that's the Male Wellness Initiative.

[00:37:45] Joyce Lofstrom: Can men go to a website and find out about that? If they're interested or. 

[00:37:50] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Sure. So, we are now rebranded to the Male Wellness Collective.

[00:37:54] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Oh, 

[00:37:54] Joyce Lofstrom: Collective, okay. 

[00:37:55] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Yeah, so it's all fine. So if you go to Male. No, we rebranded. [00:38:00] So it's malewellnesscollective.com. And our program is called Connex. 

[00:38:04] Joyce Lofstrom: Okay.  

[00:38:04] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: C-O-N-N-E-X. It's like a little play on words. So the program is called Connex. It's in person. That's the only problem, which is that it's in person right now.

[00:38:13] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: So, if you're in for a Florida vacation, we're here. Sure. But malewellnesscollective.com and we'll have all the information there. 

[00:38:19] Joyce Lofstrom: Okay. Alright. My last question is, Michael, what song do you have to sing along to when you hear it? 

[00:38:28] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: There are so many. I'm really into The Cure right now.

 And, you know, when I hear Just Like Heaven, I have to, like, they have a new album out now, and it got me all nostalgic. So I'm teaching my girls about The Cure, so right now, if I hear Just Like Heaven on, I have to. My little girl and I could play the air guitar and stuff like that when we sing along to Just Like Heaven.

[00:38:47] Joyce Lofstrom: Okay, that's perfect then. 

[00:38:50] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Awesome. 

[00:38:51] Joyce Lofstrom: Well, thanks for your time and all the updates and info that will be helpful to the podcast listeners. So I [00:39:00] hope you have a great trip to Germany, and I'll look for more info, maybe on LinkedIn, about it or something. So when you come back.

[00:39:08] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: I appreciate your time.

[00:39:08] Michael J. Rovito, Ph.D.: Thank you so much. 

[00:39:09] Joyce Lofstrom: Oh, thank you. It's great.

[00:39:29] Closing: Thank you for listening to this episode of Don't Give Up on Testicular Cancer. If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe to our program on your favorite podcast directory. You can also visit the Max Mallory Foundation at www.maxmalloryfoundation.com/podcast to listen to previous podcast episodes or donate to the foundation and join us again next time for another episode of Don't Give Up on Testicular Cancer.